He's a great votary of transparency and delegation, and Anna Hazare practised what he preaches when Team TOI sat down for an extended Q&A session with him. He answered most queries put to him, referred several to fellow-activist Arvind Kejriwal , and said his younger colleague was fully empowered to speak on his behalf. Excerpts:
When you started your hunger strike, did you think you would get the response you did?
I have often gone on fast in the last 20-25 years. I have agitated about issues in Maharashtra . This time, I was persuaded to come to Delhi . When I reached the airport and saw people and 60-70 cars, I was taken aback. There was a big crowd at Gandhi samadhi and daily, 10,000-12 ,000 people came to the site of the fast. I did not know how so many people came, I still wonder. I feel people responded the way they did because corruption is making their lives difficult. Wherever you go, people are fed up. Even children said 'Mein bhi Anna (I am Anna too)'. I believe god points to someone to stand up when there is a need to. The Bhagwad Gita says this. I stood up.
The Chief Justice of India said there should be judicial accountability. But who will this rest with?
Kejriwal : Judicial accountability is different from criminal conduct. Lokpal will not deal with accountability. There will be a citizen's charter of rights. If there is a complaint, it will go to a public grievance officer. Every department should have a GPO, just as it now has a person responsible for the Right to Information. If the GPO fails, it will go to a vigilance officer in the same department, who will be acountable to the lokpal. Then it will be deemed to have a vigilance angle. Kapil Sibal now says the draft 'you have put seems to be comfortable' .
One person you keep pointing to is Sharad Pawar.
I have nothing personal against Pawar. Mein pravitri ke taraf dekhta hoon (I look at the behaviour). Nothing personal, no agenda. A government in Maharashtra had to go because of my campaign.
Certain charges have been levelled against Shanti Bhushan, about undervaluing of a house worth Rs 20 crore. If there is any thing wrong it must be investigated . Nothing wrong in that.
Kejriwal : In 1966, they had an agreement to sell but the landlord went back on his word. They (Bhushans) won the case last year. The court has said the house should be given to them for Rs 1 lakh. If the court is saying 'take the house for Rs 1 lakh' , should Shanti Bhushan have said 'no, please take Rs 20 crore from me' ? In any case, Anna is in the lokpal committee because he is a great role model, Shanti Bhushanji is in the committee because he is a great lawyer.
Do you really think an empowered lokpal will end corruption?
No, but it will certainly put the brakes on corruption to a great extent.
But doesn't India already have adequate laws to deal with corruption?
Kejriwal: This myth has gained credence that India has good laws that are poorly implemented. The fact is that the laws have deliberately been drafted badly to ensure the powerful aren't touched. Today, if the CBI wants to file a case against top politicians, it has to first seek their permission to do so, then seek their permission to prosecute them. If you are a thief, are you going to grant permission?
You claim to represent the people. But every MP is elected by lakhs of voters. So how can you say they don't represent the people's wishes?
Kejriwal : If the fast was unconstitutional , then why did the government yield and become party to it? Many people are on fast even today at Jantar Mantar over other issues. Why has no one listened to them? If the fast was only about Anna, he could have been force-fed and the matter would have ended. It couldn't be done because it was a widespread people's movement.
Why don't you fight elections yourself?
If I do so, I will lose my deposit. Because today's politics is completely driven by money and I don't have any. People try to make a lot of money because they have already spent so much to get there. That's why decentralization and transparency are so necessary.
Kaushik Basu , chief economic adviser to the finance ministry, recently wrote that as corruption can't be eradicated , it might as well be legalized.
Once the lokpal bill is passed, he will find there is no need to do so.
Who's the most honest man you've seen in your life?
If I apply the same yardstick that I do to myself - of an absolutely spotless record after years of public service - then it's hard to come across anyone who qualifies.
And the most corrupt?
I don't know of so many people's corruption. So how can I rank?
Source-indiatimes.com
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